Advanced Trainee Routine Suggestion

Hi Seeker, welcome to the forum. I am thriving wonderfully on Bill's routine outlined in this thread thanks. This morning was workout #4 on the rotation, and it was BRUTAL! Going in I knew I was in for a world of pain and discomfort, but eager to progress as always here is what transpired... 10 calf machine squats with 682#... the last rep took ages as I s-q-u-e-e-z-e-d it out. I staggered around for 5-minutes, with an overwhelming urge to lay down and die! I then did 7 pulldowns with an omni-rep to conclude. Another 5-minute much needed rest-period, before a solid set of 7 rack deadlifts finished me off. I had to lay on my bed immediately as I entered the house... it is the closest I have come to death! Thank God I have a 2-week respite before repeating the same torture... with heavier poundages.
I don't know whether to worship the ground Bill walks on, or hunt him down!?

ahhhhhhhhhhh... welcome to my life Lifter... LOL.

I often wonder why I put myself through this still. I guess I enjoy being strong while being in the gym minuscule time! It is a love hate relationship for sure... but Oh those results are undeniable!

Blessings my friend,
Bill

But Bill you NEVER mentioned anything about the lat pain I'd experience the following day! It started to kick in as the evening approached last night, then today I woke up to the deepest, most debilitating lat soreness I have experienced in a long time... how am I going to survive the weekend???

Thanks Bill for such a terrific routine. As I mentioned, it was exactly what I was looking for and came along at the ideal time (Mind Becomes Mass). It leaves me to focus on other areas of my life, with progress the singular issue I have to contend with in my, perfectly designed, workouts.

Much appreciated my friend, God bless.

Thankfully, 2-days of deep lat discomfort, and it subsided, as I feared it may impact on today's pending workout. On further analyses of the structure of Bill's routine, I have come to appreciate the cycling effect, going from - what I deem - "easy" through to brutally hard. The ever changing stress from rotating 4 seperate workouts combined with graduating through the intensity levels has done wonders for my joint-integrity (they have felt better and better as the weeks have passed), as well as my sense of mental enjoyment... which becomes critical the more advanced one becomes.

With 4-hours to go before I commence my second rotation through the sequence, I feel an inner sense of contentment, a word I would use to sum up Bill's routine. To be honest, I haven't felt this level of inner-peace for a loooong time. That speaks volumes for how sold I am on it's arrangement, as it gels with me in all areas. With just one singular aspect to focus on, progression, I feel elated that I simply have to apply myself 100%, as I always do, and leave it at that, safe in the knowledge the routine is as sound as any routine I have applied in 3+ decades.

I don't mean to come off like a broken record but I can't say enough about how remarkable this has been to putting me on a sure-fire path towards all the goals I have set myself for 2010. Thankfully I started it with 9 months to go, leaving plenty of time to get in 20 rotations through before 2011... at  my rate of two weekly workouts on Monday and Thursday, which suites my cause at this point in time. Bill, I marvel at your skills of simplifying it all down to the most effective structure. You've done Mike proud!

God bless my friend.

Lifter thank you again...

I appreciate your kind words and appreciate you seeing the value of a routine such as this.

We just take lemons and turn them into lemonade :-)

I know you remember to always apply the TWO DAY Rule though, as the recommended workout days is all based on your genetics and as an advanced athlete as yourself, the body decides when it is 100% let alone 120% Right?

With two days of soreness, another to possibly become flush or 100%... that is 3 days...

You know where I am going... maximize your gains my friend, never minimize. :-)

Blessings always,
Bill

Thanks my friend, I hear you loud and clear, and appreciate your input and concerns. I just came in from yet another successful workout with progress throughout. I am thriving like a fish in water on these super-workouts, the progress as regular and consistent as night following day! What else could any of us hope for than ever increasing weight additions? At this stage of the game it is "supposedly" not possibile... my best years of lifting "apparently" well behind me... YEAH RIGHT!!!

I feel fuller and, as mentioned, I am feeling terrific! A week to go before I weigh and measure next, (I keep monthly tabs on my results, have done since 1981). Some of the jumps I've been able to make since dropping down to twice weekly would have taken me a month or more where I was at. Most of my poundage's are becoming precarious... but you know us hardcore, we wouldn't have it any other way!!

Take care and God bless... thanks for helping me get my training back on track!

if you start out by doing 1 set of 10 exercises to failure and then cut it down to 5 are you really getting stronger on 5 exercises? you will instantly be able to lift more poundages with 5 exercises because the workload is cut in half but is that a real strength gain? this is why it is important not to change your workout too soon. alot of people once they hit a plat-toe[sp?] will make changes in their workout the instant this happens and i think this is a mistake. you should fight to break through for a period of time before you start dropping exercises otherwise you will not know if you are getting stronger or just reducing the workload. the issues of volume and recovery are real but i think alot of time it people are not really seeing what is going on when the drop exercises. if they were doing a fly followed by a chest press and hit a plat-toe then they drop the fly the next workout and do only the chest press, of course they can do more weight on the chest press only workout. they  then equate the ability to do more weight on the chest press as a strength gain. but clearly the gain wasnt because their muscles got stronger. it was because the workload was cut in half. so if you are doing 4 exercises total in your workout and then you drop 1 exercise you have decreased your workload by 25%. of course you will be able to increase the poundages in the remaining 3 exercises [for some time]  just something to think about

jastrain...

I believe I understand where you are going here but you are talking about apples and oranges.

Volume and Strength... somewhat related but not what you are articulating.

10 sets whatever way you cut it is way too much. It would be like a sprinter trying to sprint for 3 miles. It just does not happen and of course one would become over trainined and not be able to exert maximum intensity in the workout. I know, I get a lot of these who try to mix the volume approach with true high intensity training.

But you mentioned pre-exhaustion with your example of Flies SS Chest Press then dropping the Flies??

Of course the press will be stronger when not Pre-Exhausted but again this is managing volume of sets to failure along with intensity.

I agree with small changes for sure, because you will never know if you make a number of changes at once, AND more importantly... if in fact you know and can see where to start making those changes... most are blind to this and just try things.

In fact if you are managing your recovery properly and paying attention to your log book, you should not hit a plateau unless you have missed something. And yes this does happen.

But these are the facts...

You will not becomes stronger by dropping sets for the sake of dropping sets. The focus is managing stress, strength gains and recovery ability.

If you Benched 400, Squatted 600 and Deadlifted 700, and did too many sets and then decreased those set by 50%, you would not miraculously increase the lifts by 100-200 pounds.

The factor involved is recovery and intensity. Doing 10 sets is the volume approach, nothing logical about that as no one could train that long for that hard, it just doesn't happen... you do either / or

For each set in the gym that you do there is an inverse value taken from the (body's recovery) system... your recovery. The larger the number, the bigger the value. As one increases in strength it gets worse as the intensity generated digs a bigger ditch and pulls a bigger value.

To correct this of course you have to manage it .... and applying the Theory of HIT is simple.

We know that the workout must be intense to stimulate the increase.
We know that the workout must be brief in order to not take to much.
We know that the workout must be infrequent to allow the increase.

We can not change the first because it is the REASON it all happens... muscle and strength.
But we can manage the second two.

First thing I would do in any workout is to see how much and how frequent.

In a 10 set workout I would immediately cut it in half or more... 3-5 sets is plenty.
Then I would check rest days... 4-5 is a good beginning.

Until you bring this to a starting point you really do not know because we are playing with genetics and for a natural athlete (and a non natural too) 10 is not manageable.

As far as real strength, a 400 pound bench is a 400 pound bench. If you bench 500 pounds one month later, that is real and is a strength gain. This includes reps. If you do 2 reps with 400 and in one month you do 8, this is a strength gain... real strength. Ask anyone who has gone from 2 to 8 reps with 400 pounds on the bench... their is definitely a change. And usually it also is accompanied by a muscular bodyweight gain or sometimes no change in bodyweight but a definite change in bodyfat and its loss.

So to answer your question...

"if you start out by doing 1 set of 10 exercises to failure and then cut it down to 5 are you really getting stronger on 5 exercises? "

NO, not until the body can dig out of the ditch you have created. Once it has, you will definitely make progress until another change is required and is never static. 

"you will instantly be able to lift more poundages with 5 exercises because the workload is cut in half but is that a real strength gain?"

NO, not true because of the mere reduction of sets and not instant. If this were the case, a distance runner could become an all star sprinter immediately. The reason for the strength increase is because the body was allowed the time and ability to not only compensate but to overcompensate... lay down muscle.
YES, strength is strength... the numbers do not lie.

Here is an example of a true strength increase taken from one of my clients...

7/31/2009  Bodyweight 225 Exercise Leg Press 540 pounds x 6 reps
1/16/2010  Bodyweight 231 Exercise Leg Press 900 pounds x 10 reps

Now through this transition there was a set decrease and management from workout to workout. It was neither instant nor due simply to reduction... rather managing stress. This client moved up the ladder of both weight and reps each and every workout to this point. And by the way, Three months into it, around October, we also added barbell squats! Which actually increased the sets... BUT, we managed rest time and the workout(s) not separately but as a whole.

Oh yes, the barbell squat also increase 150 pounds in 3 months and the leg presses were done AFTER the squats!

So as you can see it has nothing to do with merely reducing sets and instantly realizing a phantom strength increase... it is about managing the theory of HIT.

For more understanding of HIT, my latest book Mind Becomes Mass: Beyond Time-The Final Approach will guide you through the process from beginner to pro advanced.

Hope this helps answer some of your questions.

Best regards,
Bill

Incredible forum, and a WEALTH of info... Thank you Bill, appreciate this place more than you will ever know!!!

Thank you for your kind words. I appreciate them! and so do the rest of our group!

Blessings,
Bill

Well my friend, your routine is still going strong, my second cycle through as productive, if not more so, than my first. I just completed yet another successful workout, going up 3 reps on incline presses and lateral raises, 2 reps on bb curls, and a rep on 1/4 dips. So, once again, I progressed throughout!

Only having to contend with a certain move every fortnight keeps it fresh for both body and mind. Now I have todays workout in the bag, time to refocus on the task ahead, Thursday's brutal leg/back session. Recalling how close I felt to dying last time around, it will again be to the most severe torture one can inflict upon themselves... but that is what it's all about, so bring it on!

Well summed up Silverback, this forum is unlike any other I have seen out there, which makes it unique and well worth being part of in every way. Enjoy your stay.

God bless.

Lifter... I am pleased that you are doing so well... awesome..

I appreciate the kind words and regard always...

It is important to stay fresh and focused and I believe that that is exactly where you are.

Blessings,
Bill

Well my friend, your routine is still going strong, my second cycle through as productive, if not more so, than my first. I just completed yet another successful workout, going up 3 reps on incline presses and lateral raises, 2 reps on bb curls, and a rep on 1/4 dips. So, once again, I progressed throughout!
Only having to contend with a certain move every fortnight keeps it fresh for both body and mind. Now I have todays workout in the bag, time to refocus on the task ahead, Thursday's brutal leg/back session. Recalling how close I felt to dying last time around, it will again be to the most severe torture one can inflict upon themselves... but that is what it's all about, so bring it on!
Well summed up Silverback, this forum is unlike any other I have seen out there, which makes it unique and well worth being part of in every way. Enjoy your stay.
God bless.

-lifter

Thanks Bill and Doug. Yes, I do the top 1/4 on dips. I keep my body upright to HIT my triceps hard, with a strong, firm contraction at the top. With 18" arms on the agenda, this will do it!

God bless.

Less than 12-hours to go till D-DAY! I awoke this morning and the reality HIT what is instore for me tomorrow, and immediately my stomach started to churn... my memory still vivid from last time. My body and mind already know what lays ahead, with an extra 1kg more per exercise. As the last workout of my 2nd cycle through, it's an awesome way to peak each time. It fills me with joy, being my most stimulating workout, as much as it fills me with great fear and trepidation... it is pure HELL!

12-hours from now it will all be history, and I'll be deeply fatigued and lethargic. Just kicking it off takes great courage, 697# calf machine squats really take a toll! Pulldowns aren't much fun or reprieve afterwards. Concluding with rack deadlifts, which will milk the last reminents of my energy. 

If I'm cohesive I'll report back on what transpired tomorrow. If I don't, please feel free to drop by my hospital room.

good stuff Lifter! tear 'em up! keep us posted.....

Thanks Doug. Well, I seem to have made it through... just. Squeezed out 10 c/m squats. 6 pulldowns, struggled from rep #1, then 5 deadlifts. Like last time I had to head straight to my bed to lay down, to avoid falling down. Progress throughout, as is the norm on this fabulous routine!

Bill, if two men in black suddenly appear at your door, GO WITH THEM! They are your "friends".

great to hear it Lifter, another successful workout completed. "another brick" as Dorian would say has been mortard into the wall!

Thanks buddy, just wish I had an inkling of energy to do something... anything!